Western Union Money Order Refer To Maker

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Not one easily frustrated and seldom angry, I just had a bad experience that could happen to anyone selling (or in my case, giving away) items on QRZ.com. Beware of accepting Western Union money orders!
I recently offered on QRZ.com to give away a G5RV antenna, that I no longer used, to a ham with limited space—"free, merely pay for the medium-box flat-rate shipping of $10.70." (The fact that the item was being given away is irrelevant—it could have been a for-sale item, instead.) Several hams responded to my ad and I had to choose only one. But, I also remembered that I had a used Slinky antenna and I offered the same deal to one of the non-selected responders.

Both hams purchased Western Union money orders near their homes, one in Michigan and the other in Illinois, each for $10.70, mailed them to me, received the packages that I mailed and each sent an email back stating that he was very happy with his antenna (no chance of "stop payment" on their part). I deposited the two MO's at my local credit union on 18 Jan. The next day, my credit union submitted the MO's electronically to the Wells Fargo Bank in Englewood, CO (Western Union's central clearinghouse for cashing money orders). About a week later, I received two letters on the same day from my credit union, with copies of the money orders attached, stating that both had been returned. The return reason, stamped on the MO's, was simply "Refer to Maker." No other explanation. My bank charged me a processing fee of $10 EACH for these two rejected deposits.

Today I called Western Union's MO customer service number (800-999-9660), which answers in India, of course. Using the MO serial numbers as reference, the lady reported that Wells Fargo "cashed" the MO's on 19 Jan. After telling her that this was not true, as my credit union got rejections on that date, she admitted that her system always shows "cashed" whether it is rejected or accepted. She also admitted that there is no way to determine why they would have been rejected. There is no contact info for the Wells Fargo facility in Colorado—it has no customer service.

So, I asked about options for getting my money. There are two options. The first is to contact the persons who purchased the MO's and have each person locate the receipt he would have been given when making the purchase; fill out the form that is on that receipt; and, send that completed form to the pre-printed address for an office of W.U. in Englewood, CO.

The only other option, particularly if the purchaser has thrown away that receipt, is for me, the recipient, to write up an affidavit attesting to the facts, HAVE IT NOTARIZED, and send it to Western Union. Western Union would then "consider" my case. THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS.

This is a relatively small amount of money, even considering the credit union's "rejected deposit" fees. It might be better to simply chalk it up, rather than pay a Notary Public $15-$20 just for the possibility of getting $21.40 back. (Forget my bank's $20 processing fees—no way Western Union will reimburse that; we'll make that case directly with the credit union!!)

Anomalies happen and no system is perfect. But, here in this instance, there were TWO MO's from different parts of the country from two appreciative hams, who don't know each other, buying MO's from legitimate facilities near their homes. It is unfathomable that BOTH their purchased MO's would have been rejected and with no stated reason.

It could have been for a lot more money, thus necessitating that I take the actions necessary to retrieve these funds. So, please be aware that you are definitely at risk accepting Western Union money orders for payment. The money orders can be rejected and you may never be able to know why. I will not accept Western Union money orders for payment ever again.
This is why I won't accept any kind of money order or any kind of paper check from strangers any more. Too many scammers out there.
Sorry to hear of your problems. Your problem is why I only use USPS Money Orders.
...and cash those at the local post office before sending the merchandise or clinching the deal.
This statement appears in all my ads, even non-ham related items.Exactly!! I've never had a USPS M.O. "bounce" back on me..
KM5FL
The Post Office will cash money orders? That's interesting. Sounds like a plan.
I have a USPS document on a bulletin board here warning of fake USPS money orders. Heck, if we can cash them at the post office, we're safe!
On a couple of occasions, a buyer has paid me with a USPS money order, and I immediately used it to pay the USPS flat rate fee for shipping the equipment. The USPS clerk even gave me correct change.
Based on the OP's warning, and many other sorry tales involving Western Union, I shy away from any offer to buy equipment with a Western Union money order.
Thanks for the warning but surely this is not a common occurrence. Or is it? I don't think this is the usual "beware of scammers using Western Union" story. That usually involves someone asking for payment by WU for some merchandise but they take the money and run. This sounds like WU's system just screwed up somewhere unless both these hams are crooks which sounds unlikely.
I wonder what would have happened if you had taken these to a WU agent and asked for cash. I think for bigger amounts they give you a prepaid Visa card. Obviously if you receive cash before sending the goods you're safe but with the Visa card, is there a danger that the balance could disappear from the card at a later date if the money order "bounces" or is the card as good as cash? I'm not sure.
It is sad that our world is so full of crooks and lack of integrity that such things occur today. However, I will NOT use PayPal because of the fees involved. Why should I have to pay what amounts to a scalper to transact business? While I understand peoples' legitimate concerns about checks and other negotiable instruments, I tell folks when I send a check for payment, simply HOLD it for a few days and let it clear if they feel insecure. I am not inTHAT big a hurry. Now I don't go around writing bad checks. I don't have a lot of money, but if I write a check, the money's gonna be there, or I am not going to write it! Most people with any sense nowadays, those who have business, have been in the community for years aren't going to DO that because, 1) they have integrity, and 2) it simply costs TOO much money. What's the fees for hanging paper these days..............40 bucks at the bank + 25 from the merchant for a $20 check? I dunno; haven't done that. Those who do hang paper on the innocent don't have any intention of ever making good their deeds, never HAD a stable financial situation, don't CARE if their checks bounce, and simply walk away from the whole mess.......until or unless the sheriff appears at their door. Probably don't care about that, either.
J
Beware of accepting Western Union money orders
Thank you for this valuable information. Let me tell you a TRUE story about paying for an airplane. In December 1981, i purchased a 1965 Cessna 172 in Gastonia, North Carolina. The financing was was arranged by an assistant loan manager at a local bank. (The bank had no part in the financing.) The paper was financed by the owner's mother-in-law.
After receiving a bill-of-sale defining the amount of the monthly payments, amount and due dates, I mailed a personal check for the first four or five payments. Of course, they claimed they never received any of these. I promptly went to my bank,
bought a certified check, mailed it "certified mail, return receipt requested", and RECEIVED the RECEIPT, yet the mother-in-law claimed she never received the check. Well to make a short story long, they tried to repossed the airplane..the FBI was involved since they flew in back across State lines AND...
thanks to AVEMCO insurance Company, I] re-repossessed the Cessna.
The moral of this long story is: Even if you purchase a Bank Money Order or a Cashier's Check and mail it "Certified mail- Return Receipt Requested" and receive the delivery receipt...you cannot prove you made the payment UNLESS the receipient actually cashes or deposits the check. If you don't believe it....try it...you wont like it. More details on this story if you are interested in details. P.S. Later, the owner cashed ALL the checks I had sent.
Yours truly...73 Joe W4CBJ